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	<title>Comments on: Evernote Privacy and Security</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/</link>
	<description>Remember everything.</description>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-4/#comment-16475</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-16475</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is it really encrypting the data? I don&#039;t see the point of all this based on what I have discovered (I&#039;m no security expert, but still this is enough to make me feel insecure)

I did the following:
1. Wrote a simple note with 2 checkboxes, with the text &quot;FirstBox&quot; and &quot;SecondBox&quot;.
2. Opened the database with Notepad++, and looked for these 2 strings. Interestingly enough, these text were all over the place.
3. Encrypt the text &quot;FirstBox&quot;
4. Opened the database again with Notepad++. I can see the &quot;html&quot; portion of the database shows the text is encrypted:

Pha2/hePKsU=


However, the string &quot;FirstBox&quot; is still searchable elsewhere in the database.

What is the point of encrypting the GUI side of it, when the database side of it is not encrypted (granted, the string&#039;s location seems random, but still, it is in plain text. If it were to be a social security number, an intruder can recognize it easily).


I guess the best way is to use it is in USB mode, and put it inside a truecrypt container. 

It would be nice if the database itself is encrypted -- prevents things like &quot;intruder copying the database file and enjoying the data at home&quot;.

All in all, an interesting program. If it is more secure than this, I will go for the premium and use it extensively.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it really encrypting the data? I don&#8217;t see the point of all this based on what I have discovered (I&#8217;m no security expert, but still this is enough to make me feel insecure)</p>
<p>I did the following:<br />
1. Wrote a simple note with 2 checkboxes, with the text &#8220;FirstBox&#8221; and &#8220;SecondBox&#8221;.<br />
2. Opened the database with Notepad++, and looked for these 2 strings. Interestingly enough, these text were all over the place.<br />
3. Encrypt the text &#8220;FirstBox&#8221;<br />
4. Opened the database again with Notepad++. I can see the &#8220;html&#8221; portion of the database shows the text is encrypted:</p>
<p>Pha2/hePKsU=</p>
<p>However, the string &#8220;FirstBox&#8221; is still searchable elsewhere in the database.</p>
<p>What is the point of encrypting the GUI side of it, when the database side of it is not encrypted (granted, the string&#8217;s location seems random, but still, it is in plain text. If it were to be a social security number, an intruder can recognize it easily).</p>
<p>I guess the best way is to use it is in USB mode, and put it inside a truecrypt container. </p>
<p>It would be nice if the database itself is encrypted &#8212; prevents things like &#8220;intruder copying the database file and enjoying the data at home&#8221;.</p>
<p>All in all, an interesting program. If it is more secure than this, I will go for the premium and use it extensively.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fischer</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-4/#comment-16346</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-16346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dave says:

&quot;To really achieve what you suggest, we wouldn’t even be able to implement incremental synchronization of your account, since this requires visibility at a level of granularity which would give away too much information about the contents of your notes.&quot;

Not so.  If the data is structured as an append-only log, synchronization becomes trivial, even if stored as an opaque blob.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave says:</p>
<p>&#8220;To really achieve what you suggest, we wouldn’t even be able to implement incremental synchronization of your account, since this requires visibility at a level of granularity which would give away too much information about the contents of your notes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not so.  If the data is structured as an append-only log, synchronization becomes trivial, even if stored as an opaque blob.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Engberg</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-4/#comment-16298</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Engberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-16298</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you&#039;re concerned about someone accessing your personal PC, I&#039;d recommend using the screen lock feature in the OS and a file system encryption solution like TrueCrypt.  This is a much more comprehensive solution to protecting your private data on your own computer than separate screen lock and file encryption in every application you use (word processor, mail client, note taking software, etc.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re concerned about someone accessing your personal PC, I&#8217;d recommend using the screen lock feature in the OS and a file system encryption solution like TrueCrypt.  This is a much more comprehensive solution to protecting your private data on your own computer than separate screen lock and file encryption in every application you use (word processor, mail client, note taking software, etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-4/#comment-16291</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-16291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d like to add a bit to Jeff&#039;s comments above, taking into account what Dave has said with regards to the architecture.  While not a developer, per se, I can certainly appreciate what Dave&#039;s saying with regards to the sync and other functionality being dependent on the byte-level visibility of the contents.  I can also appreciate my colleague Jeff&#039;s points about data security being important.  

I would add that from my perspective (and possibly this goes for most of the folks that have spoken up for encryption), I find quite a bit of value in all of the ways that Evernote is accessible for most of my note data.  I do find that there are some types of data (passwords, contacts, and maybe a couple others) that I would gladly forego having all of the features that rely on an un-encrypted back-end; if that meant I could store all the data in the Evernote Application.  

Dave has hinted that we can use local notebooks, and indeed, I&#039;ve experimented with that.  However, it appears at this moment that it&#039;s an &quot;all-or-nothing&quot; solution:  In order to manually sync or backup the local notebooks, I have to essentially bypass the synchronization built in to Evernote and manually copy the .exb file everywhere I want it.  One of the only things I have a slight issue with, architecturally, is that while Evernote allows me to choose to have notebooks that are synchronized or not, it keeps them all IN THE SAME FILE.  That is one feature that I feel is better handled in Microsoft OneNote.  (My apologies: that is the first time I&#039;ve publicly said anything positive about Microsoft, and I promise it won&#039;t soon happen again!).  But all comedy aside, with OneNote, each notebook is a separate file.  If we implemented this concept in Evernote (even just separating the &quot;Synchronized notebooks&quot; from the &quot;Local notebooks&quot; into two distinct files), then we could easily have a service where we could choose between Encrypted/Local and Un-Encrypted/Synchronized and be able to have the best of both worlds.  In fact, this could be an ideal &quot;premium&quot; feature:  The Encrypted notebooks could be replicated (in their entirety) via the service for an additional fee, which I think most of us would gladly pay.

One other security related feature request:  At least allow us to &quot;lock&quot; the client with a password.  This wouldn&#039;t probably be all that traumatic to implement, and I&#039;m not suggesting that we have to be able to login to the server in order to open the application, more like a local login using a cached hash of our online password.  This would keep casual &quot;prying eyes&quot; from opening our local Evernote files yet still allow disconnected use.

All things considered, I still think Evernote is an extremely useful and well thought out service/application.  I&#039;m just suggesting that adding some of this type of functionality would broaden it&#039;s install base.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to add a bit to Jeff&#8217;s comments above, taking into account what Dave has said with regards to the architecture.  While not a developer, per se, I can certainly appreciate what Dave&#8217;s saying with regards to the sync and other functionality being dependent on the byte-level visibility of the contents.  I can also appreciate my colleague Jeff&#8217;s points about data security being important.  </p>
<p>I would add that from my perspective (and possibly this goes for most of the folks that have spoken up for encryption), I find quite a bit of value in all of the ways that Evernote is accessible for most of my note data.  I do find that there are some types of data (passwords, contacts, and maybe a couple others) that I would gladly forego having all of the features that rely on an un-encrypted back-end; if that meant I could store all the data in the Evernote Application.  </p>
<p>Dave has hinted that we can use local notebooks, and indeed, I&#8217;ve experimented with that.  However, it appears at this moment that it&#8217;s an &#8220;all-or-nothing&#8221; solution:  In order to manually sync or backup the local notebooks, I have to essentially bypass the synchronization built in to Evernote and manually copy the .exb file everywhere I want it.  One of the only things I have a slight issue with, architecturally, is that while Evernote allows me to choose to have notebooks that are synchronized or not, it keeps them all IN THE SAME FILE.  That is one feature that I feel is better handled in Microsoft OneNote.  (My apologies: that is the first time I&#8217;ve publicly said anything positive about Microsoft, and I promise it won&#8217;t soon happen again!).  But all comedy aside, with OneNote, each notebook is a separate file.  If we implemented this concept in Evernote (even just separating the &#8220;Synchronized notebooks&#8221; from the &#8220;Local notebooks&#8221; into two distinct files), then we could easily have a service where we could choose between Encrypted/Local and Un-Encrypted/Synchronized and be able to have the best of both worlds.  In fact, this could be an ideal &#8220;premium&#8221; feature:  The Encrypted notebooks could be replicated (in their entirety) via the service for an additional fee, which I think most of us would gladly pay.</p>
<p>One other security related feature request:  At least allow us to &#8220;lock&#8221; the client with a password.  This wouldn&#8217;t probably be all that traumatic to implement, and I&#8217;m not suggesting that we have to be able to login to the server in order to open the application, more like a local login using a cached hash of our online password.  This would keep casual &#8220;prying eyes&#8221; from opening our local Evernote files yet still allow disconnected use.</p>
<p>All things considered, I still think Evernote is an extremely useful and well thought out service/application.  I&#8217;m just suggesting that adding some of this type of functionality would broaden it&#8217;s install base.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Engberg</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-4/#comment-16290</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Engberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-16290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I said that &quot;we couldn&#039;t provide most of the features&quot; if we just stored a completely encrypted blob of data for each user, I was actually putting it mildly.  To really achieve what you suggest, we wouldn&#039;t even be able to implement incremental synchronization of your account, since this requires visibility at a level of granularity which would give away too much information about the contents of your notes.

There&#039;s always a trade-off between security and functionality, and truly complete encryption of your account (so we can&#039;t see any of the metadata or structure of your notes) just loses far too much of the functionality that you like.  At that point, it&#039;s not really &quot;Evernote&quot; any more.

There are a few options for people who don&#039;t want the functionality of Evernote, but just want an encrypted backup of files on their computer.  You can, of course, just make notes in Local notebooks and then back up your hard drive with something like Iron Mountain&#039;s encrypted backup service.  (There are others, but I&#039;m familiar with this one from a past job.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I said that &#8220;we couldn&#8217;t provide most of the features&#8221; if we just stored a completely encrypted blob of data for each user, I was actually putting it mildly.  To really achieve what you suggest, we wouldn&#8217;t even be able to implement incremental synchronization of your account, since this requires visibility at a level of granularity which would give away too much information about the contents of your notes.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s always a trade-off between security and functionality, and truly complete encryption of your account (so we can&#8217;t see any of the metadata or structure of your notes) just loses far too much of the functionality that you like.  At that point, it&#8217;s not really &#8220;Evernote&#8221; any more.</p>
<p>There are a few options for people who don&#8217;t want the functionality of Evernote, but just want an encrypted backup of files on their computer.  You can, of course, just make notes in Local notebooks and then back up your hard drive with something like Iron Mountain&#8217;s encrypted backup service.  (There are others, but I&#8217;m familiar with this one from a past job.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-4/#comment-16281</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-16281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dave Engberg~

So I&#039;ve put my money where my mouth is and have been using Evernote extensively over the last couple of months.  (I&#039;ve become a true convert of tagging vs sub-directories for organizing and visualizing my data) 

The more I use Evernote, the more uses I find for it, though I still refuse to put sensitive information there - yes I realize I can encrypt bits of a note, but I find that to be way too cumbersome when I have literally a hundred or more notes that I would prefer were encrypted in their entirety.  I still maintain that it would become my one true information store if only the back-end were encrypted.

In your response above you stated: 
&quot;Unfortunately, if we only stored an opaque encrypted backup of your database file on our server, we couldn’t provide most of the features that our users love.&quot;

How about giving me a choice of all the nifty tools/interfaces/methods OR a secure back-end?  That would seem to satisfy almost everyone (of course once you did this, then we&#039;d be clamoring for all the bells and whistles PLUS the back-end encryption!)

If you were to implement a public encryption algorithm such as blowfish (www.schneier.com/blowfish.html) then it could be used on the client to encrypt entire notebooks, and also on the web interface (perhaps via javascript - it&#039;s been done before) then the web interface could still be useful.

I would gladly sacrifice those bells and whistles for the sake of strong (pgp/gpg, et al) encryption on the back-end.  

I use Evernote on my Macs, my Windows machines as well as my iPhone; I think it is a great tool that is getting better all the time (Hello, Evernote for iPhone version 3???  Great upgrade there, thanks!) so for me (and I expect that many Evernote users as well) I don&#039;t need all those extra methods for getting info into Evernote; with all the versions I just install it everywhere.  What I really want more than anything is security in the cloud.  

Please re-consider strong encryption for our data on your servers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave Engberg~</p>
<p>So I&#8217;ve put my money where my mouth is and have been using Evernote extensively over the last couple of months.  (I&#8217;ve become a true convert of tagging vs sub-directories for organizing and visualizing my data) </p>
<p>The more I use Evernote, the more uses I find for it, though I still refuse to put sensitive information there &#8211; yes I realize I can encrypt bits of a note, but I find that to be way too cumbersome when I have literally a hundred or more notes that I would prefer were encrypted in their entirety.  I still maintain that it would become my one true information store if only the back-end were encrypted.</p>
<p>In your response above you stated:<br />
&#8220;Unfortunately, if we only stored an opaque encrypted backup of your database file on our server, we couldn’t provide most of the features that our users love.&#8221;</p>
<p>How about giving me a choice of all the nifty tools/interfaces/methods OR a secure back-end?  That would seem to satisfy almost everyone (of course once you did this, then we&#8217;d be clamoring for all the bells and whistles PLUS the back-end encryption!)</p>
<p>If you were to implement a public encryption algorithm such as blowfish (www.schneier.com/blowfish.html) then it could be used on the client to encrypt entire notebooks, and also on the web interface (perhaps via javascript &#8211; it&#8217;s been done before) then the web interface could still be useful.</p>
<p>I would gladly sacrifice those bells and whistles for the sake of strong (pgp/gpg, et al) encryption on the back-end.  </p>
<p>I use Evernote on my Macs, my Windows machines as well as my iPhone; I think it is a great tool that is getting better all the time (Hello, Evernote for iPhone version 3???  Great upgrade there, thanks!) so for me (and I expect that many Evernote users as well) I don&#8217;t need all those extra methods for getting info into Evernote; with all the versions I just install it everywhere.  What I really want more than anything is security in the cloud.  </p>
<p>Please re-consider strong encryption for our data on your servers.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fischer</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-3/#comment-16272</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-16272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Joe.  

I use Evernote for note-editing on my Mac desktops and my iPhone.  That&#039;s all.  

I&#039;d be a much heavier user of it and would be more inclined to store work and personal data if the data were encrypted both in transit and server storage.  

I don&#039;t use Web clips, video notes, social network integration, or other features that would expose my data to others.  

For me, anyone other than me is an unauthorized user of my data.  That includes Evernote itself.  

Moreover, everyone should be aware that the Stored Communications Act (18 U.S.C. s. 2701) the Government can easily obtain your data from Evernote, and without notifying you.  Unless that data is encrypted and Evernote lacks the key, it&#039;s a sitting duck.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Joe.  </p>
<p>I use Evernote for note-editing on my Mac desktops and my iPhone.  That&#8217;s all.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be a much heavier user of it and would be more inclined to store work and personal data if the data were encrypted both in transit and server storage.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t use Web clips, video notes, social network integration, or other features that would expose my data to others.  </p>
<p>For me, anyone other than me is an unauthorized user of my data.  That includes Evernote itself.  </p>
<p>Moreover, everyone should be aware that the Stored Communications Act (18 U.S.C. s. 2701) the Government can easily obtain your data from Evernote, and without notifying you.  Unless that data is encrypted and Evernote lacks the key, it&#8217;s a sitting duck.</p>
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		<title>By: ShouldIBScared</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-3/#comment-16224</link>
		<dc:creator>ShouldIBScared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-16224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just purchased the Premium service so I could file everything in my personal life online. I can get it to it from work on the web, from home on the mac client and on my iPhone. I put everything on there. Usernames, passwords, passports, social security cards, checkbook images, etc. I don’t do any local encryption because I think I couldn’t get to that information than on the web or iPhone. I paid for the premium service as it uses SSL. However, how safe is Evernote Premium from my account getting hacked into? Should I be Scared?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just purchased the Premium service so I could file everything in my personal life online. I can get it to it from work on the web, from home on the mac client and on my iPhone. I put everything on there. Usernames, passwords, passports, social security cards, checkbook images, etc. I don’t do any local encryption because I think I couldn’t get to that information than on the web or iPhone. I paid for the premium service as it uses SSL. However, how safe is Evernote Premium from my account getting hacked into? Should I be Scared?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Abley</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-3/#comment-15521</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Abley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 12:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-15521</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dave: I would happily lose all the features you mentioned if the data I want to store was only ever exposed in plain text on the devices I operate.

What I have been looking for is a single application that provides a rich and pleasant interface on multiple devices for storing and indexing a wide variety of media types.

Evernote seems like just the right thing, except that it&#039;s unusable for anything other than trivia that I&#039;m not happy to be made public.

Channel security in the form of HTTP/TLS is an irrelevant distraction.

It&#039;s a shame -- I&#039;d use Evernote all the time, for everything, if it was secure. As it stands the only things I can use it for are things that I don&#039;t particularly care about remembering.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave: I would happily lose all the features you mentioned if the data I want to store was only ever exposed in plain text on the devices I operate.</p>
<p>What I have been looking for is a single application that provides a rich and pleasant interface on multiple devices for storing and indexing a wide variety of media types.</p>
<p>Evernote seems like just the right thing, except that it&#8217;s unusable for anything other than trivia that I&#8217;m not happy to be made public.</p>
<p>Channel security in the form of HTTP/TLS is an irrelevant distraction.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame &#8212; I&#8217;d use Evernote all the time, for everything, if it was secure. As it stands the only things I can use it for are things that I don&#8217;t particularly care about remembering.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Ruffkess</title>
		<link>http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/comment-page-3/#comment-14801</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Ruffkess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.s40455.gridserver.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/#comment-14801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Any update on Blackberry support now that Blackberry has App World?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any update on Blackberry support now that Blackberry has App World?</p>
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